A quote from Kerodin's place:
Rhodes is at InfoWars proclaiming that they will defend their rights against NDAA to the death.
OK, fair enough. That rhetoric will find few objections among the III.
But is it simply one more case of a hollow hero drawing lines in the sand that will not be defended? Indeed, will OathKeepers not be the very Enforcers of the Enemies of Liberty who murder Citizens under the "Law" of NDAA?
For more than 18 months I have had an open question to the OathKeepers that they refuse to answer: OathKeepers, how do your current members handle enforcement of laws that violate Natural and Constitutional law right now, today? If you arrest a person for carrying a firearm or a joint, if your members participate in home invasions for drug activity, how can we believe that one day in the future your people will refuse orders that violate the Constitution?
You want to keep your oaths?
Start making arrests of those responsible, quit your job, or drop the whole "oathkeeper" meme.
Start using your inside knowledge to make arrests of police and federal agents who are actively violating citizens' rights. Stop blustering about how noble you are, and use your positions to protect, serve, and give advanced warning to citizens!!!
Where were you, for example, when my mother and grandmother were recently groped and had nude pictures taken of them at an airport by the TSA?
Why have there been no arrests of TSA agents for sexual assault?
I know an airport cop who is proud of his patriotism. He claims that he will never violate citizens' rights, but he watches and assists as they are violated daily. What's the difference between a cop who watches unlawful searches, seizures, child pornography, and sexual assaults take place at an airport, and one who watches idly as muggings, theft, and rapes happen?
There is absolutely no difference, other than that stopping one will get you a medal, and stopping the other will get you shot or fired.
Any oathkeepers care to use this blog or Kerodin's as an outlet to answer my questions and his?
I'll even post a good response from a current O.K. as a standalone post for comment and discussion.
I admire LEOs and .mils who make the acknowledgement of their oaths, and do not just blindly follow orders. I do. We lowly citizens who are not in the esteemed Praetorian class would just like to be given just a little bit of hope by seeing more than just more talk on InfoWars.
AP
If you can, sign up for OK'ers. Then browse around inside for "Damn 5-0" post if it is still around. LEO OK'ers in a nutshell.
ReplyDeleteI used to be a OK'er. Me and a few others got kicked because we were to controversial. Such things as holding cops accountable to their "We're just following orders" garbage, and posting quotes from the Founding Fathers.
There is not a cop within OK'ers who keeps their oath.
Now you have hit the nail directly on the head with posting!!!!!!! Don't tell me what you're not going to do at some unknown point in time when you are actively doing it right now!!
ReplyDeleteDoug
Newark, Ohio
I was OK several years ago also. Too controversial for them, I kept asking, 'What's your backup plan when you don't scare them to death with your placards?" They pulled my bio and pics, I removed myself from their website.
ReplyDeleteGoodbye Gestapo!
This is, as the others noted,precisey while I will fuck all to do with OK...Talk is cheap, yet none of these "oathkeepers" are willing to risk their "lives, fortunes, and sacred honor," to keep their oaths....
ReplyDeleteEven the argument I've heard from some OKers, that "Well, perhaps their definition of what the Constitution says, and yours are different..." is horseshit. The document is written in plain English, even if it was written 200 years ago. It's still perfectly clear. So, keep your oath, or STFU.
Oh hell ill stick up for oathkeepers. Im a member and a coordinator. Were just a bunch of guys trying to do our best to stop the "creep" of tyranny. Maybe the keyboard commandos wish us to stick our heads up first in the largest version of whack-o-mole ever. Well we think we can be of more service by staying off the terrorist lists. We try to reach, teach, and inspire people who took an oath to go home and think about why they took an oath and then tell their coworkers to give us a look. Soon as oathkeepers fires first obviously we will all be black bagged and sent to gitmo. We will no longer be able to educate. So in effect we wont be able to end tyranny by ourselves but were trying something. The guy we inspire this week might tell his coworkers in a few months "! You know guys I don't like this....ever heard of jose guerena? " far as the guys booted for being to outgoing Lol. Well im sorry. We have to maintain a level of credibility so members can still keep their jobs. Is it perfect...of course not. Now instead of beating us up why don't you let us do what we can and you do what you can and maybe if we work together we wont have our family drug onto the train cars.
ReplyDeleteBrian-
ReplyDeleteI understand your points.
You've recognized that something is wrong, and that is a good first step.
What I do not think is good is the OK's proclamation and declaration against not following "constitutional" orders, when in fact, we all know "OKs" do this nearly every day.
Every day.
You proved this yourself in your comments where you placed your continued employment and credibility above concrete action to honor your oaths.
It's like a christian pastor who hangs out at bars and whorehouses in order to "teach and educate".
Yeah.
I don't advocate an LEO-citizen getting himself killed pointlessly any more than I do a non-LEO citizen. I do advocate that said LEO citizen leaves his job rather than violating the principles you claim to value. I have done this in a former line of work.
"Well we think we can be of more service by staying off the terrorist lists.
How about doing what you can to quit putting us on them? What about refusing to utilize things such as the "Patriot Act" to spy on citizens? The goddamn terrorist lists are unconstitutional.
We try to reach, teach, and inspire people who took an oath to go home and think about why they took an oath and then tell their coworkers to give us a look.
Admirable.
Soon as oathkeepers fires first obviously we will all be black bagged and sent to gitmo. We will no longer be able to educate.
Then why the oath? Are you LEO? Have you ever violated a citizen's constitutionally-outlined rights? Really? I don't care about educating as much as I care about my mother and grandmother being groped and photographed in order to go to a goddamned funeral.
Would you OKs arrest a TSA team attempting to sexually assault citizens?
So in effect we wont be able to end tyranny by ourselves but were trying something.
Trying "something" is good, but my problem is this:
Oathkeepers put out an oath that they do not live up to. Their credibility is zilch.
While you may liken those like me to a "keyboard commando", I think that is unfair.
I and my fellow citizens pay your wages, and we expect you to serve us, not the government.
You are our first line of defense against crime.
When these crimes are committed by people wearing the uniform, we expect no less of you than we do when the perps are gang-bangers.
Brian, hoping to "educate" and "inform" only goes so far.
At some point, "Oathkeepers" who mouth an oath and put priority #1 to "credibility" and job preservation are no better than "keyboard commandos".
You can only wear the Stasi uniform for so long without being a Stasi man in the eyes of everyone, and in deed.
In summary, by all means keep your job. Inform. Educate.
Just don't be surprised when no one pays any attention to Oathkeepers.
You people abide the Patriot Act, you abide the TSA's violations, you abide 2nd Amendment violations, 4th Amendment violations, and you all will, in deed, abide the provisions in 2012 NDAA.
AP
Oddly enough I got into the org by being a fireman...so luckily I haven't had to violate anyones rights. When I said keyboard commando I actually wasn't thinking of you but some of your posters lol. I and many oathkeepers follow your advice of resist where we can, prepare, and resolve ourselves of what are we gonna go when the day comes! You know after reading your posts for many months this is the first time I have been disappointed in you. You are usually such a voice of wise and useful advice. Now you say our group has no principals or credibility....well have any of your posters started on the hundred heads? When you came back the the lower 48 did you use your vehicle to ram through the us border with guns blazing as a matter of principal? No you choose the time of engagement and use your downtime to plan....so do we. I don't know what else to say...lol maybe we are the pastor in the whorehouse. All I know is well keep trying as I expect you'll keep trying. Tell you what please email me at oathkeeper47@gmail.com if you have some advice or disparaging comments lol.
DeleteAP,
ReplyDeletebravo! Well said and to the point. Thanks for keeping me from making an ass of myself, you said it in a lot nicer tone than I would have.
I have no respect whatsoever for those assholes. Whatever moderator decided he could just erase my entire OK page sure thought he had some big balls.(And not even a nasty note to go with it either.) But not big enough to go out and stand up to the DHS/TSA like they say they will. Keyboard kommandos? Yeah, I kinda thought so too.
As a firefighter, you're in a bit of a different camp. Ok, quite a bit different. ;-)
ReplyDeleteI do understand the value of biding one's time.
On the border thing though, I disagree. I am a private citizen, obligated to no one but my family's well-being. I am not obligated to an oath.
Having said all that I've said, I do admit to painting with a rather broad brush. I have a habit to generalize like this after meeting quite a few "oathkeepers" (actually, every one I've known) who rationalize and explain away their involvement in each further encroachment.
The latest was a hypocrite working as an airport cop, earning his bread by supporting and assisting the TSA. Yeah. Oathkeeper
Whether or not the OK organization retains credibility depends on how it chooses to word its declarations and the actions its members take.
Mr. Rhodes' latest has gone a bit far IMO, given widespread historic Oathkeeper compliance with other unconstitutional measures.
I'll shoot you an email...
AP
I cannot fault a person for doing what he thinks right to support his family, oathkeeper or not. That's fine.
ReplyDelete(I may disagree with one's definition of "right", however...)
I do fault a person for claiming one thing, and then rationalizing why "this case was a different situation, and that doesn't apply".
I am very cynical about Mr. Rhodes' latest statement.
AP
One further thought-
ReplyDeleteIt is likely possible (although increasingly difficult) to be a soldier, and keep one's oath.
It is likely possible to be a firefighter and keep one's oath.
I do not think one can be a Law Enforcement Officer in the US and truly keep one's oath 100% as an oathkeeper. Even some of our outstanding sheriffs allow the feds to violate citizens' rights on their turf.
AP
“It's difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it.”
ReplyDelete—Upton Sinclair