This is my analysis AP. If it helps, great. If it doesn't, then sorry for taking your time.
"That snow over there---red or blue?" It's white, so how can you make sense of the question?
You keep bringing up the MHG and you keep being puzzled by it. The reason is that you're trying to pin an attribute on something for which it doesn't apply, like red or blue about the snow.
If you want to measure Ferguson's morality, then you have to look at Ferguson. Who won the war has nothing to do with it, except to add to the confusion.
Besides, it's not Ferguson's morality with which you're really concerned. It's yours, which is as it should be. The error is to keep looking elsewhere, whether the "liberty movement," or the Rule of Law, or even justice and morality generally. Those are all worthy issues to be sure, but they simply have nothing to do with YOUR morality. They are DERIVATIVE of that; they are how YOU choose to instantiate YOUR decisions and choices.
Everyone looks outside of themselves for the "causes" and everyone wants to believe that those causes are greater then themselves. It's true that one can morally CHOOSE a cause that's greater than one's life--not living as a slavemaster or slave comes readily to mind--it's still the case that there's simply nothing else upon which to base morality except one's own life, and how one chooses to live it.
This isn't an opinion...the opinions come later, about what to do because of this fact. It's a fact...what you will choose to do will be up to you, and the same for me and everyone else. We seek "higher causes" because we don't want the responsibility that comes with that. Well, tough nuggies...the responsibility is ours anyway, whether we want to face it or not. Your life, and the lives of those close to you, will rest on YOUR (and their) decisions, and nothing else.
This is why the MHG is so critically important. Without it, we're just weeds blowing in the wind, ready to jump on whatever cause the next guy tells us is the MHG. That might be alright, except he's often wrong and even more importantly, resting on his judgment can NEVER relieve us of our own responsibility. It can only make us FEEL like like we didn't have that responsibility.
But if we make the wrong decisions, we'll be just as dead anyway. Or even worse, live a life that feels as if we were dead. You know the MHG because you LIVE it, away from these discussions. You raise and protect your family, and you try to have as nice a life as possible. And you recognize that the mess we're in is about the PHYSICAL abridgement of that decency, and so you want to do something about it.
That's all the MHG is, and it's only a bunch of "experts" and wild-talking intellectuals that have convinced you otherwise. That's all I've been trying to say, at least on this topic, all along. Take it FWIW.
I ask Moral High Ground questions over and over not because I am looking for an answer, but to get others to think.
You said: "You keep bringing up the MHG and you keep being puzzled by it. "
I'm not puzzled by it. Not in the least.
Mral High Ground is a fallacy and is an entirely subjective concept, as the Ferguson story clearly illustrates. That was the point of my post, rather than looking for direction.
It's rather simple, in fact.
In a fight worth fighting, win. If losing is at all acceptable, do not fight.
It applies to social as well as political violence.
Ferguson was no more right or wrong than any other person who fought in that war.
But it's not a fallacy; it's just a fallacy where you're looking. Who won or lost the war has nothing to do with it. What Ferguson was doing and why he was doing it, is all that matters.
Here's where we agree---it's about winning. But not just winning anything, winning the right things. Me, I'm partial to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. And I'd like to win, which here means "being happy." My hunch is that you're looking for exactly the same things, because most decent people are looking for exactly that.
But the point here is that the morality rests in, and OF, the individual. There's just nowhere else it could be, even as an individual can choose various goals other than his own life. What other people do, or what other people choose, can never change that.
We're already free in that respect. We just don't accept it because we were taught not to and because it brings along a ton of responsibility. That, plus we know there are millions of thugs out there who would cage or kill us for recognizing it, and that's not a very pleasant thought.
Still, with only one life to live, I choose to go after the right things anyway.
This is my analysis AP. If it helps, great. If it doesn't, then sorry for taking your time.
ReplyDelete"That snow over there---red or blue?" It's white, so how can you make sense of the question?
You keep bringing up the MHG and you keep being puzzled by it. The reason is that you're trying to pin an attribute on something for which it doesn't apply, like red or blue about the snow.
If you want to measure Ferguson's morality, then you have to look at Ferguson. Who won the war has nothing to do with it, except to add to the confusion.
Besides, it's not Ferguson's morality with which you're really concerned. It's yours, which is as it should be. The error is to keep looking elsewhere, whether the "liberty movement," or the Rule of Law, or even justice and morality generally. Those are all worthy issues to be sure, but they simply have nothing to do with YOUR morality. They are DERIVATIVE of that; they are how YOU choose to instantiate YOUR decisions and choices.
Everyone looks outside of themselves for the "causes" and everyone wants to believe that those causes are greater then themselves. It's true that one can morally CHOOSE a cause that's greater than one's life--not living as a slavemaster or slave comes readily to mind--it's still the case that there's simply nothing else upon which to base morality except one's own life, and how one chooses to live it.
This isn't an opinion...the opinions come later, about what to do because of this fact. It's a fact...what you will choose to do will be up to you, and the same for me and everyone else. We seek "higher causes" because we don't want the responsibility that comes with that. Well, tough nuggies...the responsibility is ours anyway, whether we want to face it or not. Your life, and the lives of those close to you, will rest on YOUR (and their) decisions, and nothing else.
This is why the MHG is so critically important. Without it, we're just weeds blowing in the wind, ready to jump on whatever cause the next guy tells us is the MHG. That might be alright, except he's often wrong and even more importantly, resting on his judgment can NEVER relieve us of our own responsibility. It can only make us FEEL like like we didn't have that responsibility.
But if we make the wrong decisions, we'll be just as dead anyway. Or even worse, live a life that feels as if we were dead. You know the MHG because you LIVE it, away from these discussions. You raise and protect your family, and you try to have as nice a life as possible. And you recognize that the mess we're in is about the PHYSICAL abridgement of that decency, and so you want to do something about it.
That's all the MHG is, and it's only a bunch of "experts" and wild-talking intellectuals that have convinced you otherwise. That's all I've been trying to say, at least on this topic, all along. Take it FWIW.
Good article. How many do we know today who will sell us out when times get tough? To many, we are already traitors too.
ReplyDeleteJim-
ReplyDeleteYou make good points.
I ask Moral High Ground questions over and over not because I am looking for an answer, but to get others to think.
You said:
"You keep bringing up the MHG and you keep being puzzled by it. "
I'm not puzzled by it. Not in the least.
Mral High Ground is a fallacy and is an entirely subjective concept, as the Ferguson story clearly illustrates. That was the point of my post, rather than looking for direction.
It's rather simple, in fact.
In a fight worth fighting, win. If losing is at all acceptable, do not fight.
It applies to social as well as political violence.
Ferguson was no more right or wrong than any other person who fought in that war.
He was only a "criminal" because he lost.
Oh and Jim-
ReplyDeleteI always value your opinions and input. You have yet to "waste my time".
But it's not a fallacy; it's just a fallacy where you're looking. Who won or lost the war has nothing to do with it. What Ferguson was doing and why he was doing it, is all that matters.
ReplyDeleteHere's where we agree---it's about winning. But not just winning anything, winning the right things. Me, I'm partial to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. And I'd like to win, which here means "being happy." My hunch is that you're looking for exactly the same things, because most decent people are looking for exactly that.
But the point here is that the morality rests in, and OF, the individual. There's just nowhere else it could be, even as an individual can choose various goals other than his own life. What other people do, or what other people choose, can never change that.
We're already free in that respect. We just don't accept it because we were taught not to and because it brings along a ton of responsibility. That, plus we know there are millions of thugs out there who would cage or kill us for recognizing it, and that's not a very pleasant thought.
Still, with only one life to live, I choose to go after the right things anyway.
Jim-
ReplyDeleteI see what you're saying now.
I do agree that morality rests with the individual.
I'll go back and look at what you said before in light of what you've just explained.
Thanks for your patience, the insight and the food for thought!
"In a fight worth fighting, win. If losing is at all acceptable, do not fight."-AP
ReplyDeleteBe effective.
Define the elements of "win". Derive Tactics to achieve "win". Then energetically do "win".