Israel indirectly admits to terrorist acts.
Here's my stream of thought-
Israel assumes attacks on its diplomats are Iranian sourced. Could be. After all, there's a clear motive. What else do you need to convict? Certainly not evidence!
Then it calls these acts terrorism (as if sanctions do not precicely fit the definition of economic terrorism).
Sort of like the bombings of Iranian nuclear scientists on Iranian soil.
By the same logic Israel uses to accuse and convict Iran in the linked article, Israel can be accused and convicted of killing Iranian scientists on Iranian soil. So far Israel's logic, if applied in the reverse, would condemn it every bit as much as it is attempting to condemn Iran.
To quote a wise Man..."For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Nowhere does this passage say "Do not judge", rather, it explains the hazards and potential for one's hypocrisy to be exposed when doing so. No one was better at exposing hypocrisy, or more brutal is pointing it out, than the wise Man whom I reference.
So let me see if I understand... it's acceptable for Israel to kill Iranian scientists (assuming they did), but "terror" for Iran to kill (assuming they did as well) Israelis? Israel has "plausible deniability" in all cases, but Iran does not, in any case?
Is the hypocrisy burning anyone else?
I guess which side one believes is a matter of personal preference and logical deduction, according to the facts as one sees them.
I have spoken of all this repeatedly, however. A pretext for a military strike is being fabricated. Right now.
Welcome to history.
Nothing new. One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
ReplyDeleteIt's not terrorism when WE do it.
ReplyDelete-Quote from a representative of practically any government or violent political movement (but I repeat myself) ever.
Israel doesn't call for all nations to destroy Iran and doesn't promise to do so as soon as they have the means to. (which they currently do posess) I'd say being threatened with genocide changes the viewpoint, wouldn't you?
ReplyDeleteMark
I hav read your blog for some time and feel compelled to tell you that it has been my observation that you have "grown" in the ability to accept relevant and verifiable facts, and then address them rationally. I know that sounds patronizing, but you seem to be a man who has been given the grace of reason, and its companiion - intellectual honesty. I note that it gets you trouble at times with the Israel firsters and rabid Isalm haters. Thank you for your very good work.
ReplyDeleteOne man's terrorist is another man's patriot.
ReplyDeleteLOL, now I read the comments and Ryan is right there with me. GMTA, Ryan- thaknks for verifying it for me. ;)
However, I also agree with Anonymous. Israel jsut wants to be like you and I: left alone. Yet all the muzzie nations, including a lot of non-muzzie nations, want to eradicate Israel/Jews (we can't separate one from the other).
As to this country sticking its foolish nose into the scenario: all we're going to do is get a lot of good kids killed. We are not the world's policeman and just because we, as Maericans, enjoy a free republic, does not mean the rest of the world wants to. If they did, they'd be there already. Our military is nothing more than a coercive force trying to make the bad child eat its veggies, as you've said.
Shy III
I hear your argument and I am not an Israeli agent or closet rabbi.. I respect Israel's nerve and their history grants them the right to defend themselves as they see fit, a concept that also applies to all nations equally.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with them is that I don't care what they do as long as it doesn't drag us into it or cause us to pay for it.
I'm also tired of their American jews supporting our enemies here yet wanting us to support their homeland..
enough ranting.. but I wonder if they will help us when our govt makes it move ?
@ Mark, as I understand it Dinner Jacket's statement about that was not entirely as it was framed here in the West. But that makes no difference to me. As Israel has nukes (non-signatory to nuke treaty) and certainly stated it would use all means at its disposal to keep Iran (signatory) from nukes, it makes it difficult to not miss the hypocracy.
ReplyDeleteYou are missing the big picture here son. This "news" is going to get US in a world of shit. A world that I reject because I know that the truth has been killed and left in a shallow grave. You (we) are being pulled where we should not tread. And to be honest, I am tired of war for the Bankers.
Pickdog
III
Anon 1:35-
ReplyDeleteThank you very much.
Some would say just the opposite. In fact, some have. ;-)
I appreciate your thoughts and kind words.
AP
Nice Strawman arguement you have constructed here.
ReplyDeleteYou do realize that the same aurgument could be said for your side. That all your post are just to build outrage to justify resisting and taking action for what you perceived to be just cause.
Do think it's hypocritical of you to critisize others for doing what you yourself are doing?
Resist or Not... I no longer care what you do. I will stick around and comment from time to time if thats OK with you.
Josh-
ReplyDeleteFinally, you and I see eye to eye, although there is no strawman here; I'm not attacking anything.
You said,
That all your post are just to build outrage to justify resisting and taking action for what you perceived to be just cause.
Uh, well, yep. You're right.
Should I instead work to justify further tyranny?
Should I not work for what I see is right?
My point is that all sides use justifications, pretexts, and other tools to make them "right" in their own eyes.
Hence my long and arduous "Moral High Ground" series. The Iran situation ties in nicely, and accentuates my worldview.
There's a method to the madness here.
Who is "right"?
Heh.
Our descendants will be told that by the victors.
Resist.
Question does mexico have a legitimate beef with the Anerican Government do to gun walker?
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Mexico might feel justified in taking action against the US. One of those actions might be to suport a freedom movement called III%'ers that are looking to reform or change the US government.
What if instead of guns it had been rockets.
Hmmm...
Ah, AP maybe we're arguing over the trifles.
ReplyDeleteQuestion does mexico have a legitimate beef with the Anerican Government do to gun walker?
ReplyDeleteYes.
Do you think that Mexico might feel justified in taking action against the US. One of those actions might be to suport a freedom movement called III%'ers that are looking to reform or change the US government.
Possibly, although not likely, still, it's possible. I think gunwalker did little or nothing to weaken or threaten the Mexican government directly, so I think action is unlikely.
Supporting the III movement would be a poor investment for a nation looking to hurt the US government.
If the III movement took power, many more guns would be flowing south. Firearms freedom is just that- no checks, no controls. Freedom. My 12 year old should be able to pay cash for an MP5SD, IMO.
Mexican gangs would get a lot of guns from the US...assuming the local militias let them live in their AOs.
I can see that you're trying to make a point here and tie it to my Iran arguments, but the thing is, we agree.
I don't know how else to put it.
The arguments each side uses are equally valid. That is why Israel and America's claim to the "moral high ground" here is laughable.
That's why Israel's "use nukes to prevent nukes" policy justifies a nuclear strike on Israel.
Moral High Ground.
It's fantasy.
AP
Josh-
ReplyDeleteWe are, I think.
Still, I'm enjoying it. ;-)
AP
"Should I instead work to justify further tyranny?" - AP
ReplyDeleteShould we let tyranny flourish and smother others freedom?
"For evil to flourish all that is need is for good men to do nothing." - I forget and I probably butchered it.
I just realized our disconnect. I'm not aurguing moral high ground, but where is the line for when self-defence is justified. Does some one saying they are going to kill me and they have the means enough for me or a government to take action.
ReplyDeleteIran (government) has said they want to wipe Israel off the map, and arguably working on having the means to do so.
Israel as Mark mentioned all ready has the means to destroy Iran.
Their is no MAD dynamic at work with a Nuclear Iran and Isreal. Iran is large enough to survive 1 or 2 strikes Israel is not. Also Israel would no longer be able to allow any short range missile, drone, mortar or artillery; as any of these can deliever a 1 to 2 kiloton tactical nuke becones a threat in a state as small as Israel.
With a nuclear Iran Israel would be forced to keep a nuclear payload at permanent ready status, Silo or bomber. Any infrengement of Israeli air space would be a recipe for desaster.
http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/isnukes.html
Hmmm...
Corection:
ReplyDelete"Also Israel would no longer be able to allow any short range missile, drone, mortar or artillery strikes to land with their boarders; as any of these can deliever a 1 to 2 kiloton tactical nuke becones a threat in a state as small as Israel.
Sorry left out some key phrasing.
Anyone want to bother considering a 3rd or even 4th party who is meddling with Iran AND Israel? Anyone? Oh, but that would be so complicated to contemplate and it would disrupt "A must lead to B" linear thinking!
ReplyDeleteAs for other interested parties I would venture thatHugo Chavez is involved, red China, maybe soviets, Suadi's, more ??
ReplyDeleteA rapist uses force. If a women uses force to try and stop the rape- Is she now "giving up the moral high ground" regarding the use of force?
ReplyDeleteDo not be confused by the method. To live, she must use equal or greater force to save herself, up to and including doing worse damage to the attacker than he would do to her.
So who is right?
The winner writes history. Frequently the loser is dead, and libeled.
Just Win.
Serf- "Que Bono?"
ReplyDeleteWho benefits?
You are judging right and wrong based on tactics?
ReplyDeleteSeems like the larger issue is who wants to annihilate who. And it makes no difference who the US "sides" with, since the whole world will be dragged in if Israel and Iran go at it. Close the Straits and Russia will be the world's largest oil producer overnight.
Question:
ReplyDeleteHow do you stop two people/parties from fighting?
Hmmm...